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With one Biden official saying that regulating so-called “junk fees” isn’t just popular among consumers but also “smart economics,” the White House hosted a bipartisan discussion Tuesday on hidden costs that some businesses charge.

“Junk fees are those sneaky fees that are hidden from consumers when they’re shopping for the best price and they sneak up on them when they’ve already made up their mind and they’re about to make payment,” said White House National Economic Council Director Lael Brainard. “ … And of course, they hit the most vulnerable Americans the hardest. They can take hundreds of dollars a month out of the pockets of hardworking families and undercut honest, transparent price competition.”

Panelists included college business and economic professors, a former Federal Trade Commission chairman and an executive for the event ticket seller StubHub.

In recent months, President Joe Biden has been targeting what he has deemed excessive fees, including ticket service charges, higher prices for families to sit together on flights, early termination fees for canceling cable TV or Internet service, resort and destination fees, and bank overdraft charges.

His administration has proposed new rules that would require more transparent information on air fares and internet service, and the president has called for Congress to pass legislation that would crack down on fees.

“Look, junk fees may not matter to the very wealthy, but they matter to most other folks in homes like the one I grew up in, like many of you did,” Biden said during his State of the Union address last month. “They add up to hundreds of dollars a month. They make it harder for you to pay your bills or afford that family trip.”

Each year, Americans pay $29 billion in “excessive charges,” according to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

Vicki Morwitz, a professor at Columbia University Business School, said Tuesday that the practice of obscuring fees has accelerated since she began studying the issue and predicted the trend would continue if the government does not step in.

“I believe that firms will increasingly turn to practices like these, and that enhanced technology and better data and prediction models will help firms to refine them in ways that will further increase their own profits, but to the detriment of consumers,” she said. “The consequence will be that consumers will end up making choices that do not reflect their true desires or preferences and will end up spending more money than they intended and than they needed to.”

William Kovacic, former FTC chairman under President George W. Bush, said buyers understanding the terms of transactions is key to properly functioning markets.

“When shrouded terms are included, when hidden terms are included, when deceptive terms are built into sales agreements or when sales instruments are so intricate and complex that human beings cannot really comprehend their full significance, consumers are not likely to be able to make choices that satisfy their preferences,” he said.

Laura Dooley, head of government relations at StubHub, explained that in 2014 the company voluntarily introduced “all-in pricing” aiming to clearly show customers the full total they’d be paying for tickets. However, StubHub’s competitors did not follow its lead and the ticket seller lost significant market share because would-be customers mistakenly assumed the listed prices did not include additional fees and believed they’d pay more at StubHub, she said.

“Certainly, this experience, as you can imagine, has driven our perspective that federal legislation or rulemaking is not just necessary but it’s critical to implementing an all-in pricing standard equitably across our industry,” she said.

A Morning Consult poll last month found that about three-quarters of all U.S. adults support legislation that would reduce service fees for event tickets and eliminate early cancellation fees for cable TV and internet service. The proposal is supported by the majority of Democrats and Republicans.

But some have pushed back against Biden’s efforts to fight the fees.

For example, Airlines for America, the trade group representing major U.S. carriers, insisted last month that its member airlines do not charge a family seating fee and that Biden’s proposals “would inevitably drive-up costs and reduce choices for the consumer.”

Some airlines offer lower fares for tickets that do not offer fliers the opportunity to choose their own seats. In recent weeks, United, American and Frontier airlines have announced policy changes making it easier for families to sit together without paying more.

And last year, Republican North Carolina Rep. Patrick McHenry, who has since been appointed chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, criticized a proposed Biden administration rule targeting what it called “excessive” credit card late fees, saying “limiting the fees that issuers can charge to cover costs and deter bad behavior threatens the safety and soundness of our financial system.”